More On Christmas And Other Things

First off, I see that many of you have greatly exaggerated my viewpoints. I don’t see why, but that is what happened in the comments of my latest post on the subject of paganism, Is Christmas Pagan? Part 3. First of all, I obviously do not believe music is pagan. For one, there are obviously countless verses in the Bible about this. Which reminds me, I did not include any references in my last post, for which I apologize. Anyway, let’s take a look at a few verses of the Holy Bible that talk about music:

Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him: talk ye of all his wondrous works.” Psalm 105:2

Still not convinced?

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;” Ephesians 5:19 KJV

I hope that cleared things up. The Bible tells us to sing praises to God, right? However, the Bible exactly describes the Christmas tree in Jeremiah (as previously mentioned).

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Here is my point in bringing up this verse. While we may not be worshiping it (some people certainly are), why do it in the first place when it is specifically mentioned in the Bible as what not to do? We know the real reason they made this a Christmas ritual is to get Christians to do something pagan. And we (the proverbial “we” that is) as sheeple have given in without a thought!

That’s all I have. What did I forget? Did I miss a point brought up in the comments? Please let me know down below.

Is Christmas Pagan? Part 3

This is part 3 of the series, Is Christmas Pagan? I will begin with a video I thought might be interesting for this purpose.

If you didn’t already notice after watching this short video produced by No Greater Joy Ministries, the opinion of the video creator aligns with neither mine, nor most of your’s opinions. The creator has no problem with Christmas trees (as long as you don’t worship them) and all of the other traditions that go along with most people’s ideas of Christmas. He says that celebrating Christmas and doing all of these things is fine as long as you leave Christ out of it! Well obviously, this person disagrees with me in that they think that Christmas is supposed to be about these things and not Christ. That is the secular way to celebrate the holiday.

But he does have a point. Christ shouldn’t be connected to these rituals. However, that doesn’t mean we should forget Him for the holidays and do the other stuff. Obviously not. Rather, we should do the opposite. Forget the distractions and take the opportunity to gather with family and celebrate Christ (we should do that all the time).

Now, on to my readers’ comments from Is Christmas Pagan? Part 2:

“Agree.” –Angel at Watchyourlifeinpictures

Okay, cool.

“Interesting article but I would have to disagree with the Christmas tree thing, it’s talking about when they cut down trees and made idols out of them. An idol is something you worship! We’re not worshiping a tree. Also, if you believe decorating a tree is wrong, then you have to take down every decoration in your house because your decorating wood. What are houses made out of? Wood and what is a tree wood. Decorating a tree is not wrong.” –Roselynn Cummings

About the verse which I had mentioned in the previous post, Jeremiah 10:2-4. While it doesn’t actually pertain directly to Christmas trees (according to the opinions of many biblical scholars and the like), isn’t it kind of a red flag that what we’re doing every Christmas is so similar to what the Bible warns us not to do? Whether we’re worshiping it or not, does that not make you think what you’re doing might just be wrong? So I don’t think it is the same as decorating a home.

“I’m not talking about Christmas decorations. I’m talking about all decorations. Because If you think just decorating a tree is wrong, then you shouldn’t decorate anything.
The verse was talking about when they carved idols out of trees and worshiped them.
You don’t celebrate Christmas at all?” -Roselynn Cummings

The thing about trees… it’s in the Bible… and putting decorations on things isn’t worship. Christmas trees are like exactly what the pagans in biblical days did, which is what the verse was referring to. (Obviously it wasn’t referring to literal Christmas trees, since Christmas didn’t exist at the time. Well, pagan rituals which Christmas was derived from did, but anyway…)

Also, I have only stopped celebrating it in the last few years as I’ve learned these things, and I must say it’s been quite hard to give up, but we have mostly stopped. This Christmas we just had some fam over and sang some hymns, etc.

The following is what she said about the song O Christmas Tree:

“Listen to the lyrics. They’re talking about Christmas time and the joys of it. Here they are:
‘O Christmas tree, o Christmas tree
How lovely are thy branches
O Christmas tree, o Christmas tree
How lovely are thy branches
Your boughs so green in summertime
Stay bravely green in wintertime
O tannenbaum, o Christmas tree
How lovely are thy branches
Let us all remember
In our gift giving and our merriment
With our family and friends and loved ones
The real and true meaning of Christmas
The birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ
O tannenbaum, o tannenbaum
How lovely are, are thy branches
O tannenbaum, o tannenbaum
How lovely are, how lovely are thy branches
The pillars all please faithfully
Our trust in God unchangedly
O tannenbaum, o tannenbaum
How love, lovely are thy branches
On Comet, on Cupid, on Donder and Blitzen
Ha ha ha ha’
I don’t personally listen to this song, but I don’t think is has anything to do with worshiping a tree.” -Roselynn Cummings

Why sing to a Christmas tree if not to worship it? Read the lyrics, guys…

“Every day of the year is probably some old pagan holiday. There’s (and was) hundreds of religions out there and thay all have holidays of their own. What I’m saying is every day is some old pagan holiday. So we can’t celebrate anything because it’s probably on a day that the Egyptians adored the sun god.” –quintin308

That is true. Most holidays are pagan. I don’t celebrate most holidays. (No Seriously, not just their origins.)

“Yes we should remember Jesus all year, but still why not have a Christian holiday on a pagan holiday. That way you swap something from being bad to good.” –Kingslayer7553

That’s not necessarily a problem. But the way we often celebrate Christmas isn’t very Christian. (greed, idols, etc.) Not saying everyone does this, just a lot of Christians today.

“Yes you are right Colton. Christmas is a replacement for idol worship. So what? Christmas is a significant victory for Christendom over paganism. You are saying that because Christmas has pagan roots, it is wrong. Therefore what you are saying is that Christmas will always be wrong, and that Christ cannot conquer it. And on the subject of the Christmas tree: God made all trees. The tree in the bible is the symbol of Life (read Revelation 22:2). Trees can either be used in an evil way, in worshipping them, or they can be used to as a symbol for the tree of life for us Christians.” –lilalai07

Interesting. But Christmas is still pagan. Yes, worshiping God is a great thing! But worshiping God is not done by putting up and decorating a symbolic tree.

“I wanted to take you seriously- and I’ll admit the passage about the trees is swaying. But you lost me after that. “Santa” isn’t a synonym for Saturn or Saturn…. Santa refers to Saint Nicholas of Patara- why on Earth else do you think another name for Santa Claus is “Old Saint Nick”? Saint Nicholas –> Sint Nikolaas (DTCH) –> Sinter Klaas (SF/S DTCH) –> Santa Claus (Anglicized DTCH; specifically American); the modern image and myth of Saint Nicholas in regards to Christmas is a result of 19th century commercialization. At this point I’m laughing so hard I could cry. Please, for the love of God, actually pick up even a basic religious history book and do some legitimate academic research. Because I didn’t spend 10 years in religious studies to deal with this bad of an argument.” –Among the Juniper

Yes, it is a synonym. It’s all related. Watch the vid I posted in Is Christmas Pagan: Part 1. And look here: Not entirely related but still.

Well, that about covers it. PLEASE comment below with your opinions on this topic!!


Is Christmas Pagan? Part 2

Because of the high popularity of Is Christmas Pagan? part 1, and because of the large amount of opposition against my point of view as told in the above mentioned article, I have decided to create a second part to the previous post, explaining what I did not explain in the previous article, and responding to the opposing arguments presented by my readers. Without further ado, let us begin.

While it is not against the Bible to celebrate the birth of Christ, something I believe we should be doing year round, not just during the month of December, we are not commanded to do so. We do it because His birth was one of the greatest and most glorious events in history, right? Well, how is giving gifts and decorating Christmas trees and spending money celebrating God? That is why I think the whole thing is useless.

As for the paganism within Christmas, many aspects of Christmas are indeed pagan. We decorate Christmas trees. The Bible very clearly tells us not to do this. Jeremiah 10:2-4 states,

Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Jeremiah 10:2-4 KJV

The above is exactly what we are doing when we cut down, set up, and decorate Christmas trees every year.

What about Santa Claus? He’s innocent, you may say. No, even his name proves his connection to Satan. Santa, Saturn, and Satan are all synonyms. If you didn’t already watch the video I included in part 1, now is the time to do so, as it explains in further detail the evil of Santa Claus, whom people have tried to Christianize by calling him Saint Nicholas, in addition to other common traditions of Christimas.

Now, I will answer the questions of several of my readers. First, Ebony Embry brought up several valid points during the debate in the comments of part 1. Here is her first argument that is worth debating:

That video was right about one thing: Not everybody celebrates the same thing in Christmas. Christians celebrate Christ’s nativity on Christmas. Others may celebrate other things. That’s none of my concern. Therefore, while Christmas may be a pagan holiday for some, it’s Christ’s birthday for us. ~Ebony

Good points. You’re totally right, Ebony. Not everyone is celebrating Christ in Christmas. In this debate I am assuming the best, that is, that everyone is generally celebrating the birth of Christ in Christmas. Now, the title of my posts infers that I am not talking against the celebration of His birth (rather, simply questioning it; it’s good to question things lie these every once in a while), but rather, the pagan rituals we often unknowingly partake in every Christmas, some of which I have already mentioned above. So, even if you don’t know, depending on which pagan rituals you partake in during Christmastime, maybe you just are celebrating things other than Christ…

On to Kingslayer7553. He/she said the following

Why should we not celebrate Jesus’s birth why would it be bad and while he may not have been born on Christmas day. Christmas is a time so that you can remember it.

Yes, it is, but shouldn’t we remember it always, not just on a random man-made day in December? Where did we get this day anyway? The pagans.

Finally, onto Iman (ManJan), who thought it best to defend his beliefs with sarcasm. Here is his long, droning sarcastic comment:

Christmas is evil because it is a replacement of worshiping the sun god of Rome to worshipping the actual God, Jesus! And I believe it is wrong because we replaced worshipping an idol for worshipping the true God. Also, Christmas is wrong because bad people take advantage of it to make money. Yes, they are bad people and do bad things using Christmas and Christmas itself has really nothing to do with commercials! But! Just because evil men use it for commercial stuff therefore it evil in esense!

While this is partially true, it’s obviously sarcasm.

Jaël (lilalai07), who had no particular argument to be mentioned here, did not immediately recognize the sarcasm, and responded with this, which had a few points of interest:

Look, do you think I celebrate Christmas because I worship the sun god of Rome? No. I know people take advantage of it to make money. Christmas decorations, Santa Claus, all of this stuff. But I celebrate Jesus’s birth. I know he wasn’t born on the 25th. I think of Christmas a nice holiday where I can receive some gifts and see all my friends and family and celebrate Jesus’s birth. You believe it is wrong because we replaced worshipping an idol for worshipping the true God. Well, let me tell you, I don’t worship the Christmas tree we have, I don’t just think of presents when it comes to Christmas, and I haven’t replaced God with some kind of idol at Christmas. This is not saying that other people don’t do this. You are right in the sense that some people will do this, but this over all does not mean that Christmas is bad.

While this was in reply to an invalid comment, the points she made here are still viable. So, she is saying that she does not celebrate Christmas for pagan reasons obviously. Neither do anyone else who believes in Christmas. You are right Jael, Christmas is a replacement for idol worship. I saw (somewhere) an argument that Christmas isn’t wrong just because we replaced idol worship with Christ worship. (Yep, that is exactly what Christmas is!) Well, that is basically trying to Christianize pagan holidays. I don’t think this is right, it’s like dressing up as an angel for Halloween. Really?

Well, thank you for reading. Please keep active in the comments. Share your differing views. Keep the debate going. Share your thoughts on December 25. Now, I won’t be around here until Monday, December 30 (on second thought, maybe the 31st, the former is my mother’s birthday), so your comments will not be readily replied to by me. Other than that, have a great evening y’all!


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